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CNG vehicles, like electric, to remain a niche market

Michigan Live -- Even with more automakers offering compressed natural gas vehicles to retail customers, officials expect the majority of sales to remain in the fleet market for years to come.

According to analysts, the vehicles being offered by automakers to U.S. retail customers only make sense to a small group of people who are not fleet or commercial customers.

“I don’t want to seem too negative about the consumer vehicles, but the consumer vehicles have to follow the fleet vehicles,” said Richard Kolodziej, president of National Gas Vehicles for America.

Kolodziej’s trade organization, which represents more than 150 companies, environmental groups, and government organizations, estimates there are about 120,000 natural gas vehicles on U.S. roads today and more than 15.2 million worldwide.

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Submitted Nov 15, 2012 By: skb69sa

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honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:18,632 Points:1,610,495 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 6:53:57 AM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse won't go far unless more stations are put forth, but that's a chicken and egg game isn't it?
MAC48 Champion Author Dallas Posts:1,549 Points:767,755 Joined:Dec 2006	Message Posted: Nov 16, 2012 12:39:39 PM Ignore MAC48 Report Abuse It is a fact that 100% electric vehicles fill a very narrow niche market whereas hybrid electric/gas vehicles occupy a much larger though still narrow niche market. The exact same statement is true for CNG vehicles where 100% CNG vehicles fill a niche market that is narrow compared to the much larger bifuel CNG/gasoline niche market. What sets the bifuel CNG/gasoline market apart from the hybrid electric/gas vehicle market are the range and the very short time it takes to refuel a CNG fuel tank at a commercial station. If anyone is interested in knowing where commercial stations offering CNG fuel are in the US, check out the site below and click on the “location” icon. Note the heavy concentration of consumer CNG stations in Southern California, Oklahoma and the Atlantic Coast states from New Jersey to Massachusetts. Keep watching this web sit CNG locations map as it expands over the next few years. www.cngnow.com It is quite obvious that one can go from the East coast to the West coast along the Interstate system using primarily CNG and occasionally gasoline powered travel. The ability of bifuel vehicles to travel whereever one wants to go and refuel in a convenient/reasonable time frame will make the bifuel vehicle market a major segment of the automotive market in the not too distant future IF automakers expand the bifuel concept to all of their lines from mid size sedans to the 1 ton crew cab pickups.
blupupher Champion Author Houston Posts:3,555 Points:749,020 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Nov 16, 2012 9:21:14 AM Ignore blupupher Report Abuse build affordable CNG/gasoline hybrids and I would get one.
jrs4125 Champion Author Indiana Posts:2,763 Points:592,720 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Nov 16, 2012 8:29:35 AM Ignore jrs4125 Report Abuse CNG is finite, where as electricity can be produced in several differnt ways.
boatfloyd Champion Author Jacksonville Posts:1,723 Points:388,950 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Nov 16, 2012 1:09:16 AM Ignore boatfloyd Report Abuse At $9,000.00 extra, that will keep them in a special place, by themselves.
rahcat Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:2,473 Points:663,925 Joined:Jan 2010	Message Posted: Nov 16, 2012 1:04:21 AM Ignore rahcat Report Abuse Old news
stpatrickbday Champion Author Albuquerque Posts:1,531 Points:568,400 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Nov 16, 2012 1:01:09 AM Ignore stpatrickbday Report Abuse Just another excuse to raise gas prices.
Tacodan Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:2,329 Points:655,185 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:09:27 PM Ignore Tacodan Report Abuse hydrogen...............!
badbonita Champion Author Syracuse Posts:6,229 Points:1,354,685 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 12:04:51 PM Ignore badbonita Report Abuse Ford also has some of their pickups available as a CNG version as well as some of their vans.
Gmsclecarparts All-Star Author Oklahoma City Posts:707 Points:123,195 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 11:59:54 AM Ignore Gmsclecarparts Report Abuse QualTekGuy wrote: "What are the limitations of a CNG vehicle other than filling up?" The only domestically avail CNG only car is the Honda Civic GX. Limitation wise, its a compact car, not grandma's old Crown Vic. I've ridden in 2 different Civic CNG's & had little complaint, the Civic GX is not a throw your back in the seat small performance car, but with enough power to make it an adequate-great suburban commuter vehicle. Driving range for the Civic GX on a full 3600psi refill is between 200-250 miles (personal driving style & terrain have an effect on mileage). Other CNG vehicles avail domestically are mainly converted dual fuel big 3 3/4 ton pickups, some Toyota Tundras, and many larger SUV's: Tahoe's, Suburbans, etc. The OKC area has easily the largest concentration of CNG converted pickups & SUV's & factory built Civic GX's. At a local GGE (Gallon of Gasoline Equivalency) prices of $1.39 to 1.50 they are all over the place. GM & Dodge have recently introduced dual fuel factory built 3/4 ton pickups.
crep1291 Champion Author Ottawa Posts:2,583 Points:481,250 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 11:34:49 AM Ignore crep1291 Report Abuse Thought CNG is cheap right now, prices will likely double when more and more CNG vehicles get on the road. Prices will triple or quadruple once those LNG starts being exported. This will make CNG more expensive than gasoline.
Gmsclecarparts All-Star Author Oklahoma City Posts:707 Points:123,195 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 11:18:10 AM Ignore Gmsclecarparts Report Abuse geezrtek wrote: "...The proof of the range issue for EVs is the one car (that I know of) that has a 300 mile range on electric only is the Tesla sedan. Even at $60K, out of reach for most... "geezrtek, the Tesla S that gets close to a 300 mile range is NOT $60K, more like 106-112K. It has a much larger battery. The $60K version of the Tesla S has a much smaller battery & is not being produced. [Edited by: Gmsclecarparts at 11/15/2012 10:19:10 AM EST]
Point__man Champion Author Raleigh Posts:4,340 Points:878,670 Joined:Oct 2010	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 11:09:20 AM Ignore Point__man Report Abuse Duke Energy has just requested a 14% increase and has another increase planned for early next year. More news like this will kill any plans for EVs in the near future unless solar charging stations and quick charge (or swappable) batteries become an affordable option. Other electric suppliers will follow suit as soon as they see demand rising. CNG is in for similar problems as our reliance on Big Oil switches to alternative fuels ;) There is no escaping the GREED ;)
geezrtek Champion Author Michigan Posts:1,912 Points:431,960 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 10:33:07 AM Ignore geezrtek Report Abuse The difference between EVs and CNG is enough range on the specified fuel (CNG or electrons) to function as well a normal gas vehicle. The proof of the range issue for EVs is the one car (that I know of) that has a 300 mile range on electric only is the Tesla sedan. Even at $60K, out of reach for most, production for the next year is sold out and there is a waiting list. They can't give away the Chevy Dolt. The solution to the lack of public recharge/refuel stations for both is bi-fuel capability. As home gas compression units roll out you will see consumers buy CNG vehicles in numbers that dwarf EVs.
QualTekGuy Champion Author Illinois Posts:3,071 Points:734,825 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 10:20:54 AM Ignore QualTekGuy Report Abuse What are the limitations of a CNG vehicle other than filling up?
smokinjoe54 Champion Author Ohio Posts:4,723 Points:913,510 Joined:Feb 2010	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:48:05 AM Ignore smokinjoe54 Report Abuse Woouldn't mind a CNG but don't want an EV.
boatmen Champion Author New York Posts:3,085 Points:622,805 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:36:01 AM Ignore boatmen Report Abuse CNG vehicles should be the wave of the future with the abundance of Natural Gas For get electric the electric companys are Same as Big Oil greedy biches
bruceha2000 Champion Author Vermont Posts:2,873 Points:1,286,310 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:33:26 AM Ignore bruceha2000 Report Abuse If the manufacturers want to sell the cars, they need a CHEAP compressor people that have access to natural gas can at home can use. And yes, they need CNG stations open to the public.
EXTREMESNOW Champion Author Medford Posts:8,910 Points:1,821,540 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:32:35 AM Ignore EXTREMESNOW Report Abuse Great point miser73.
Janetique Champion Author Virginia Beach Posts:1,139 Points:746,640 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:32:28 AM Ignore Janetique Report Abuse CNG is a great option. There is a lot of investment now going into CNG fueling infrastructure both for fleets and for the everyday consumer. Development takes time...
bart_reed Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:3,979 Points:786,605 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:32:08 AM Ignore bart_reed Report Abuse Actually, they will get more popular.
miser73 Champion Author Gary Posts:1,188 Points:242,315 Joined:Apr 2012	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:31:39 AM Ignore miser73 Report Abuse Only for lack of a refueling infrastructure. The horseless carriage once was a niche market too.
fcdriver Champion Author Tennessee Posts:7,253 Points:1,474,805 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:28:01 AM Ignore fcdriver Report Abuse but one that easier to use for most
MikLamb Champion Author Texas Posts:7,990 Points:2,176,095 Joined:Jun 2006	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:27:55 AM Ignore MikLamb Report Abuse I agree, deputydog082.
deputydog082 Champion Author Detroit Posts:1,791 Points:661,315 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:26:50 AM Ignore deputydog082 Report Abuse need the supply & delivery infrastructure to be built for cng cars to take off
1fuelish1 Champion Author Charlotte Posts:14,814 Points:1,854,445 Joined:Dec 2005	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:25:33 AM Ignore 1fuelish1 Report Abuse I would have expected the fleets to convert first. The fleet operators have the resources to install fueling stations that will take years to reach the consumer (although the article yesterday reported the development of a home NG compressor for refueling vehicles in driveways).
krzysiek_ck Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,332 Points:730,110 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:25:02 AM Ignore krzysiek_ck Report Abuse Time will tell.
Paw5X Champion Author Gary Posts:9,908 Points:2,269,255 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:24:42 AM Ignore Paw5X Report Abuse I have to agree with GasholeMI
nerde Champion Author Florida Posts:6,425 Points:1,315,670 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:23:39 AM Ignore nerde Report Abuse They market them as a niche product so they can jack up the price
Drill4Petro Champion Author Illinois Posts:4,091 Points:1,016,160 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:23:33 AM Ignore Drill4Petro Report Abuse Nontheless...CNG has a much brighter future.
GasholeMI Champion Author Lansing Posts:10,144 Points:1,719,265 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:23:04 AM Ignore GasholeMI Report Abuse In my opinion, CNG vehicles will far outpace electric vehicles in the future.
skempton Champion Author Vermont Posts:1,149 Points:840,135 Joined:Apr 2010	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:22:34 AM Ignore skempton Report Abuse There's niche for electric cars too.
Titan_62 Champion Author Maryland Posts:1,468 Points:329,405 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:22:10 AM Ignore Titan_62 Report Abuse ...I don't want one
deerslayer5 Champion Author Minnesota Posts:3,010 Points:657,285 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:21:26 AM Ignore deerslayer5 Report Abuse Ok
justme48 Champion Author New Jersey Posts:2,525 Points:512,245 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:19:14 AM Ignore justme48 Report Abuse Interesting.
fltdoc Champion Author Oklahoma Posts:8,886 Points:1,556,695 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:18:42 AM Ignore fltdoc Report Abuse This is the best reason I can think of to purchase one now. The state rebates are still available and likely will be until CNG takes hold. GE is partnering with Chesapeake to produce a compressor to use in the home and the price is projected to be around $500. This is about 80-85% lower than anything available on the market right now. You can fuel your vehicle overnight and if you have a reasonable commute, you won't have to find a commercial fueling station. Of course, it won't be a vehicle to take long trips in, at least not for now.
muquee Champion Author Harrisburg Posts:2,436 Points:523,320 Joined:Nov 2011	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:18:39 AM Ignore muquee Report Abuse Salty up front.
WestMichigan Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:2,483 Points:556,815 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:18:39 AM Ignore WestMichigan Report Abuse Mass markets don't have access to refueling so of course it will stay a niche.
I10Express Champion Author San Antonio Posts:8,674 Points:1,640,945 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:17:08 AM Ignore I10Express Report Abuse Would be ok if you didn't have that $11000 up front charge.
TheMeltz Champion Author Maryland Posts:2,169 Points:641,825 Joined:Feb 2009	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:15:43 AM Ignore TheMeltz Report Abuse in order for this to be successful for the consumer, there need to be fueling stations anywhere and everywhere.
StrangeLuv Champion Author Kansas City Posts:3,689 Points:901,900 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:15:25 AM Ignore StrangeLuv Report Abuse Probably.
rtw777 Champion Author Florida Posts:9,401 Points:1,842,970 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:15:13 AM Ignore rtw777 Report Abuse All it needs is ample filling stations, which will not happen soon.
reff5577 All-Star Author Illinois Posts:816 Points:1,035,565 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:15:04 AM Ignore reff5577 Report Abuse really
zwsn01 All-Star Author Alabama Posts:691 Points:441,025 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:14:42 AM Ignore zwsn01 Report Abuse If I can find a way to fill up, I will be in that niche market. Also, if some fleets are converted to CNG, the demand for gas & diesel will be lower, helping everyone.
Tnerbeel Champion Author Houston Posts:8,830 Points:1,749,810 Joined:Mar 2007	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:14:32 AM Ignore Tnerbeel Report Abuse Yup, mainly local fleets and municipalities.
Hop1LA Champion Author Baton Rouge Posts:3,319 Points:1,177,470 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:14:30 AM Ignore Hop1LA Report Abuse The vehicles need to be flexible between CNG and gasoline. The technology already exists.
85XJ Champion Author Toledo Posts:5,611 Points:1,281,740 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:14:07 AM Ignore 85XJ Report Abuse I'd seriously consider a bi-fuel passenger car from Chrysler or GM, heck I might even consider one from Ford.
BartBuzz Champion Author Atlanta Posts:8,890 Points:1,776,735 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:12:10 AM Ignore BartBuzz Report Abuse Until there's a real demand it will stay a niche. The free market will decide unless the government screws it up.
GDAE Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,155 Points:221,875 Joined:Oct 2012	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:11:57 AM Ignore GDAE Report Abuse Finally a voice of reason.
naw62 Champion Author Maine Posts:9,437 Points:2,217,890 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:11:05 AM Ignore naw62 Report Abuse Those type of cars won't make it